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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2019-12-20 · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html">design meeting 2019-12-20</a></h3>

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<a name="183938753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183938753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183938753">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- design meeting still start here in 40 minutes. As noted in <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="131828" href="/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/pre-design.20meeting.202019-12-19">#t-compiler &gt; pre-design meeting 2019-12-19</a>, the plan is to discuss <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/209" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/209">compiler-team#209</a>, "major changes proposal". <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> and I drafted up a <a href="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw">hackmd</a> here with some motivations and an initial draft proposal. The high-level summary, though, is as follows:</p>
<ul>
<li>We want some kind of system where people advertise changes that they are making or plan to make <br>
    * and the team can give high-level feedback early<br>
    * and -- if we decide to go with the change -- we can ensure there is a reviewer beforehand</li>
</ul>



<a name="183939515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183939515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183939515">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>"reviewing with context is very difficult"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>was this supposed to be "reviewing <em>without</em> context" ?</p>



<a name="183940098"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940098" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940098">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>"However, we would likely “just approve” because it is fairly mechanical and doesn’t require a design meeting" </p>
</blockquote>
<p>it would be good to clarify that this "just approve" is meant as a response to the associated <em>major change issue</em> , not to a PR opened with no associated major change issue. (Or at least, that is my inference of what the intent was in this example. If that is not the case, definitely needs clarification.)</p>



<a name="183940256"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940256" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940256">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>was this supposed to be "reviewing <em>without</em> context" ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, corrected</p>



<a name="183940443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940443">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>it would be good to clarify that this "just approve" is meant as a response to the associated <em>major change issue</em> , not to a PR opened with no associated major change issue. (Or at least, that is my inference of what the intent was in this example. If that is not the case, definitely needs clarification.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>tried to clarify the intent, thanks</p>



<a name="183940547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940547">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been musing about where the structural-match PR <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67088" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67088">#67088</a> would go; i.e. if its a major change or not</p>



<a name="183940578"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940578" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940578">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have an example: "Heads up, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> is removing <code>PlaceBase::Static</code> breaking every single use site of <code>place.base</code>: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000</a>"</p>



<a name="183940606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940606">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Re PR <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67088" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67088">#67088</a>, see in particular my comment <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67088#issuecomment-563216008" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67088#issuecomment-563216008">here</a>; I had written the PR under the assumption that the context had been well established in past issues. But maybe a fresh issue as a heads-up would have made things much smoother.</p>



<a name="183940795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940795">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I have an example: "Heads up, <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> is removing <code>PlaceBase::Static</code> breaking every single use site of <code>place.base</code>: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/67000</a>"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>maybe add that to the hackmd :)</p>



<a name="183940856"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940856" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940856">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would say that the answer that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> and I were coming to was "if you are in doubt whether it's a major change, it probably is" -- but that in turn pushes us to wanting a very light-weight process</p>



<a name="183940922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183940922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183940922">(Dec 20 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the premise was that, otherwise, this was only capturing a relatively narrow set of things and would be less useful</p>



<a name="183942552"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942552" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942552">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- design meeting starting <strong>now</strong>.</p>



<a name="183942557"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942557" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942557">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Announcements</h1>



<a name="183942694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942694">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a question -- I failed to produce minutes from the last two design meetings. I was planning on spending some time to go back and do that today. But I'm wondering if anybody else wants to take one of them =)</p>



<a name="183942720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942720">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>on 27/28 December, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> and I will be hacking on mir opt stuff. If anyone wants to join, they're more than welcome</p>



<a name="183942725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942725">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>ooh fun</p>



<a name="183942729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942729">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>what time?</p>



<a name="183942770"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942770" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942770">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess just "all day"? :)</p>



<a name="183942772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942772">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>yea</p>



<a name="183942774"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942774" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942774">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I might join you in the mornings</p>



<a name="183942779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942779">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, my mornings</p>



<a name="183942784"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942784" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942784">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>hehe</p>



<a name="183942865"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942865" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942865">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I have a question -- I failed to produce minutes from the last two design meetings. I was planning on spending some time to go back and do that today. But I'm wondering if anybody else wants to take one of them =)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can work on making minutes</p>



<a name="183942877"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942877" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942877">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been working on writing up the <a href="https://gist.github.com/nikomatsakis/a1e17c7d8f8647d7124cfdf9fec5b3bc" target="_blank" title="https://gist.github.com/nikomatsakis/a1e17c7d8f8647d7124cfdf9fec5b3bc">design and justification of Chalk's abstract type library</a>. There is a Zulip topic <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="144729" href="/#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/visualizing.20the.20chalk-ir">#wg-traits &gt; visualizing the chalk-ir</a> for discussing it (somewhat odd topic title, I suppose, it began with me posting a diagram I made). I'd love to start getting some feedback, though the write-up probably isn't <em>quite</em> far enough along to see the full picture.</p>



<a name="183942912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942912">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I should add some links to some of the design meeting hackmds where we've discussed some of the details, too.)</p>



<a name="183942994"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183942994" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183942994">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> is this interesting for people not working on Chalk/traits too?</p>



<a name="183943014"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943014" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943014">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e. is it a "test case" for librarification?</p>



<a name="183943031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943031">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Probably. I hope that -- when done -- this library would be part of the library-ification effort</p>



<a name="183943065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943065">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>The idea would be that it will be the basis for chalk and type checker libraries, and perhaps (eventually) referenced by MIR libraries too</p>



<a name="183943075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943075">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(since MIR kind of needs a definition of types)</p>



<a name="183943104"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943104" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943104">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I already hate LucidChart</p>



<a name="183943111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943111">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol</p>



<a name="183943124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943124">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's so far the best online charting tool I found? But that's not saying much</p>



<a name="183943180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943180">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>clearly I need to just hand-write SVG files</p>



<a name="183943196"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943196" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943196">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm just annoyed by how many barriers I've had to go through just to look at your picture)</p>



<a name="183943207"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943207" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943207">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="183943208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943208">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I need to revive mon-artist</p>



<a name="183943209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943209">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>clearly</p>



<a name="183943222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943222">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I had planned at some point to export an SVG and embed it in the gist :)</p>



<a name="183943289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943289">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, probably everybody is here...</p>



<a name="183943299"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943299" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943299">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>any last announcements?</p>



<a name="183943330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943330">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Based on the <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> emojis above we have slightly less of a "quorum" than I would hope for</p>



<a name="183943331"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943331" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943331">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that's ok</p>



<a name="183943404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943404">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>As noted in <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="131828" href="/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/pre-design.20meeting.202019-12-19">#t-compiler &gt; pre-design meeting 2019-12-19</a>, the plan is to discuss <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/209" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/209">compiler-team#209</a>, "major changes proposal". <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="124287">mw</span> and I drafted up a <a href="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw">hackmd</a> here with some motivations and an initial draft proposal. The high-level summary, though, is as follows:</p>
<ul>
<li>We want some kind of system where people advertise changes that they are making or plan to make <br>
    * and the team can give high-level feedback early<br>
    * and -- if we decide to go with the change -- we can ensure there is a reviewer beforehand</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="183943417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943417">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's what I wrote above</p>



<a name="183943445"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943445" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943445">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thnk it probably makes sense to spend some time walking through the hackmd</p>



<a name="183943447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943447">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>how do you want this meeting to go: Did you want to review the text itself with everyone present, or can I start writing down concerns?</p>



<a name="183943464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943464">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> maybe note them in the hackmd itself</p>



<a name="183943476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943476">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm guessing not everybody read it?)</p>



<a name="183943502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943502">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I guess the high-level sumamry is clear since I posted it like 22 times. I'll just start throwing out a bit the motivations -- I'd definitely like to hear if people think they are off base :)</p>



<a name="183943511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943511">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Proposal is to add <em>some</em> sort of notification / lightweight process before making major changes.</p>



<a name="183943556"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943556" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943556">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>In contrast, today there is no stated process for a "major change" beyond just opening a PR.<br>
Of course some changes get a lot of discussion before hand, but others do not.</p>



<a name="183943567"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943567" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943567">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some problems that we see with today's system:</p>



<a name="183943584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943584">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Sometimes we get large PRs that have attempted a major change without any discussion beforehand; these PRs can sit for a very long time without any feedback (I've elided details from the doc)</li>
</ul>



<a name="183943624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943624">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>PRs can sit for a very long time without feedback; both because people are not clear on whether the idea is a direction we want to go, and because reviewer never really budgeted the time to take it on, and (I think) sometimes from frustration that this giant bundle of work apperaed from nowhere :)</li>
</ul>



<a name="183943645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943645">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Over time, a focus on PRs (versus explaining the idea) leads to<br>
    * more tech debt and less overall cohesion<br>
    * lack of documentation</li>
</ul>



<a name="183943656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943656">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll stop here for a second</p>



<a name="183943753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943753">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Mostly I'm curious if these "problems" speak to other folks or not</p>



<a name="183943817"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943817" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943817">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>these are all indeed problems</p>



<a name="183943839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943839">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>especially since some PR's subsequently get "auto-closed"</p>



<a name="183943849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943849">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>due to lack of activity</p>



<a name="183943857"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943857" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943857">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah.</p>



<a name="183943904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943904">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>One thing I would note is that I think some of the "delay" and limbo is inevitable --</p>



<a name="183943916"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943916" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943916">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>which, while good for health of project overall, is surely a bummer for the contrbitor</p>



<a name="183943922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943922">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I still think it's beneficial to represent that uncertainty in some way other than an open PR</p>



<a name="183943942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943942">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>fwiw, we do have pretty high control over <em>that</em> -- if we want to keep something open because compiler team is interested, we of course can</p>



<a name="183943947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943947">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but we can discuss in more detail that later I guess)</p>



<a name="183943954"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943954" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943954">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>fwiw, we do have pretty high control over <em>that</em> -- if we want to keep something open because compiler team is interested, we of course can</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I see it as a symptom of a problem and not the "root problem"</p>



<a name="183943966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183943966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183943966">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes it's a symptom that makes it pretty obvious that there's a problem</p>



<a name="183944002"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944002" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944002">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, the doc basically then points out that there are strengths to today's "system" (or lack thereof)</p>



<a name="183944004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944004">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some strengths of today's system that we would like to preserve:</p>
<ul>
<li>Low barrier to entry, not a lot of "bureaucratic overhead"</li>
<li>People should be able to experiment without "authorization" before hand</li>
<li>We don't want a lot of overhead for the <em>compiler team</em> to manage some authorization process</li>
</ul>



<a name="183944031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944031">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>in short, it's often super awesome that people just go out, hack up some PR, and come in with a fix to some problem</p>



<a name="183944040"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944040" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944040">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>that seemed like it was never going to get fixed</p>



<a name="183944136"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944136" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944136">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>and open source doesn't really lend itself to too much "top down" management somehow, or at least if you get too constraining, you're losing a lot of the potential benefits</p>



<a name="183944163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944163">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>The last part was our attempt to elaborate how we would know the system is working. It's working if:</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>We have a better idea of what is being done and by whom<br>
    * and also whether the team has approved of that direction</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Major changes will be discussed before they become a PR that is up for active review<br>
    * reviewers will be identified beforehand</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>When reviewing a PR, reviewers will have a better idea of its goals and how it fits into the bigger picture</p>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="183944190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944190">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would also like to preserve some sort of "high throughput" if at all possible, e.g., we should not block on time at a meeting or so I think (or at least try to avoid that mode)</p>



<a name="183944206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944206">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>good point, we should add that to the list</p>



<a name="183944228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944228">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it's working if we haven't just added a lot of overhead and blocking</p>



<a name="183944240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944240">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>the "major change issue" will also be a good place to track the progress if a change ends up being implemented as a series of PR's (either due to drafts being closed and fresh ones opened, or if there is a chain of PR's that depend on each other)</p>



<a name="183944319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944319">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I would also like to preserve some sort of "high throughput" if at all possible, e.g., we should not block on time at a meeting or so I think (or at least try to avoid that mode)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, it would be good if a "this is harmless, go ahead" decision could always be made quickly</p>



<a name="183944336"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944336" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944336">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we should not block on time at a meeting </p>
</blockquote>
<p>what does this mean, precisely?</p>



<a name="183944362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944362">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>as in, we should not cause major change issues to lie stagnant because we ran out of time as synchronous meeting point?</p>



<a name="183944383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944383">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it may mean that we do not block on a meeting at all</p>



<a name="183944395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944395">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I still don't understand what that means</p>



<a name="183944400"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944400" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944400">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, <em>that</em> definitely runs afoul of the process I proposed :)</p>



<a name="183944404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944404">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically, if you have a reviewer, and you've documented things, then we should be able to async move forward</p>



<a name="183944428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944428">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but I think that's precisely what we should be hammering out)</p>



<a name="183944431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944431">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>unless someone raises a concern</p>



<a name="183944470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944470">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>the default I think should be "major changes need a partner" essentially</p>



<a name="183944486"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944486" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944486">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's note that down</p>



<a name="183944528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944528">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I'll lay out the "strawperson" change, I think we could incorporate something like that that I would e comfortable with</p>



<a name="183944529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944529">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>that sounds like a good idea</p>



<a name="183944546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944546">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> so to be clear: the developer would still be expected to file a major change issue</p>



<a name="183944557"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944557" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944557">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="183944566"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944566" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944566">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it would be listed in whatever regular update process we have</p>



<a name="183944590"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944590" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944590">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>correct, yes, but we would not expect the developer to block on approval</p>



<a name="183944608"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944608" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944608">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>(unless they don't have a partner)</p>



<a name="183944629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944629">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically, this is similar to the shepherd finding their lang team partner in my mind (though a bit different)</p>



<a name="183944634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944634">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I think we are missing a step here. when is something classified as a major change?</p>



<a name="183944707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944707">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, let's file this (I took some notes at end of hackmd) and bring it back up later ?</p>



<a name="183944710"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944710" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944710">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>but let's maybe let <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> drive the discussion</p>



<a name="183944722"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944722" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944722">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would personally not want to spend time figuring out what classifies as a major change, and plat that by ear -- I don't think it's a super important question, we can figure out what's best as we go</p>



<a name="183944725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944725">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>well I see two options:</p>
<ul>
<li>cover the exact process described in the doc (maybe everybody read it?)</li>
</ul>



<a name="183944730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944730">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>discuss what is a major change</li>
</ul>



<a name="183944756"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944756" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944756">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll just briefly cover the process from doc that was proposed:</p>
<ul>
<li>if you are are making a "major change", you open an issue</li>
<li>we assign each major change a reviewer and give it the green light -- we have to discuss how this happens</li>
</ul>



<a name="183944793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944793">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that's the heart of it, right</p>



<a name="183944807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944807">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>To be clear, a reviewer is not expected to be a pair-programmer</p>



<a name="183944809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944809">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>right?</p>



<a name="183944810"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944810" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944810">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the point is that it may not be <em>approved</em>, there may be pushback, or request for a design meeting, better docs, etc</p>



<a name="183944816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944816">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's correct</p>



<a name="183944892"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944892" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944892">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I would personally not want to spend time figuring out what classifies as a major change, and plat that by ear -- I don't think it's a super important question, we can figure out what's best as we go</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think we should spend at least <em>some time</em> on this</p>



<a name="183944903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944903">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular I think there could be a lot of different expectations</p>



<a name="183944914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944914">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>but <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> and I were thinking of a fairly expansive definition</p>



<a name="183944961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944961">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I think an important point is that -- for larger efforts like e.g. the MIR place refactorings -- there would probably be many PRs, but one "major change issue"</p>



<a name="183944967"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944967" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944967">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe something like "a change that (should) modify rustc-guide documentation"? To me that feels about the right level</p>



<a name="183944997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183944997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183944997">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Interesting</p>



<a name="183945013"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945013" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945013">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I rather like that, though it presumes I think a better level of rustc-guide docs than we have today :)</p>



<a name="183945061"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945061" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945061">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(even if it doesn't, if you feel like "aww it <em>should have</em> ...")</p>



<a name="183945081"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945081" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945081">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do agree that we can develop this over time -- I'd sort of rather that, initially, we e.g. bring it up at triage meetings if in doubt</p>



<a name="183945084"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945084" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945084">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>or something like that</p>



<a name="183945096"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945096" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945096">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or maybe just in a zulip topic, doesn't have to be meetings)</p>



<a name="183945107"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945107" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945107">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>there was another point that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> and I said informally</p>



<a name="183945115"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945115" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945115">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>that I don't think made it into the doc</p>



<a name="183945119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945119">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>but which I want to bring up</p>



<a name="183945130"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945130" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945130">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>which was -- what happens if someboyd opens a PR but they <em>haven't</em> done this process</p>



<a name="183945143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945143">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>one option might be that we have a little nice bit of text about the process</p>



<a name="183945147"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945147" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945147">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and what do we do with the current set of open PR's, too.)</p>



<a name="183945151"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945151" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945151">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>and we said "this seemsl ike it is a major change; I'm going to close for now, can you file an issue?"</p>



<a name="183945225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945225">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>one can also imagine that closing is "too rude" though I don't think it necessarily has to be. It depends on how much we want the open PRs to be kept "tidy"</p>



<a name="183945243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945243">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, should high priority items be given more flexibility?</p>



<a name="183945251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945251">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. if something is being targetted as a fix for beta</p>



<a name="183945253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945253">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if it's part of a well defined process it's not so rude</p>



<a name="183945275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945275">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>(even if its a major change; which is an exceptional case, I'll admit...)</p>



<a name="183945276"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945276" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945276">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think one approach is also -- if we go with my proposal for how to categorize these things -- we ask them to write up the rustc-guide docs that would go along with their change</p>



<a name="183945290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945290">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>this sort of helps guide "what is the content of the issue"</p>



<a name="183945304"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945304" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945304">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> that could be a good part of the text, yeah</p>



<a name="183945313"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945313" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945313">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>and keeps them interested, hopefully, as its a meaningful step (and likely a prereq for our discussion)</p>



<a name="183945316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945316">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., we point them at the process, and it points out that we probably need docs</p>



<a name="183945321"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945321" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945321">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>however, a lot of times the bootstrapping there is hard</p>



<a name="183945324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945324">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I feel ok about that</p>



<a name="183945331"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945331" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945331">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, as an example, I would feel some obligation to help write the "base material" in many cases</p>



<a name="183945373"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945373" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945373">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there could be a friendly comment which just says they need to write up a proposal before their change can be merged and then if they don't do that within a week (or two?), we could close the PR per the policy.</p>



<a name="183945386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945386">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I wouldn't view it as a <em>prereq</em> to starting work, more something to be done as we go</p>



<a name="183945391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945391">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and probably together)</p>



<a name="183945405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945405">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> 's idea is interesting</p>



<a name="183945410"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945410" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945410">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see it as a pre-req potentially to us discussing/understanding the change</p>



<a name="183945416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945416">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>delaying closing the PR, giving people the chance to sort of "backfill" the major change proposal.</p>



<a name="183945436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945436">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I see it as a pre-req potentially to us discussing/understanding the change</p>
</blockquote>
<p>what is "it" here? writing up rustc-guide docs?</p>



<a name="183945441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945441">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>fwiw, the two weeks is I think what we normally give <em>any</em> PR that's blocked on the author</p>



<a name="183945449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945449">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, rustc-guide docs</p>



<a name="183945454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945454">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>and I wouldn't view it as a prereq to starting work, more something to be done as we go</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, the process would not stop anyone from experimenting. it's more about setting expectations about what needs to happen before something can get merged</p>



<a name="183945469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945469">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I think that it's often possible to convey the "gist" of an idea more concisely, though of course it'd be beter if rustc-guide contained even sparse sentences than nothing</p>



<a name="183945476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945476">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>but ok let's focus on this question:</p>



<a name="183945479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945479">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>do</p>



<a name="183945490"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945490" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945490">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>/poll When a PR is opened that is not following policy, do we?</p>



<a name="183945572"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945572" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945572">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>don't those polls not work on mobile?</p>



<a name="183945582"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945582" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945582">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, I don't know</p>



<a name="183945585"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945585" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945585">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was hoping that had bene fixed :)</p>



<a name="183945586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945586">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that was why I use emojis in triage meeting)</p>



<a name="183945592"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945592" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945592">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>one question -- the nice message would be "immediate", right?</p>



<a name="183945607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945607">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>don't those polls not work on mobile?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think they just say "there's a poll here, go to a desktop to see it".</p>



<a name="183945611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945611">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, I meant that the nice message would be immediate</p>



<a name="183945632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945632">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok so here is one other edge case</p>



<a name="183945638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945638">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>suppose that</p>
<ul>
<li>a PR is created with a big change</li>
<li>an issue is created, but it is controversial</li>
</ul>



<a name="183945661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945661">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I geuss we can discuss case by case maybe</p>



<a name="183945678"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945678" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945678">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>(if you are here and are on mobile and cannot see the poll, add to a <code>:mobile_phone: </code> <span aria-label="mobile phone" class="emoji emoji-1f4f1" role="img" title="mobile phone">:mobile_phone:</span> emoji  on this message)</p>



<a name="183945720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945720">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm sort of inclined to say though that if we decide "this needs a design meeting" or something we can close the PR</p>



<a name="183945738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945738">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I don't have a strong opinion really, maybe ther'es not much point</p>



<a name="183945744"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945744" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945744">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would agree with that -- and would prefer that we do in fact close the PR</p>



<a name="183945757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945757">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>an open PR creates a mild expectation that others should not touch the area of code, etc.</p>



<a name="183945776"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945776" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945776">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>(due to rebase pain)</p>



<a name="183945814"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945814" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945814">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="183945820"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945820" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945820">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, great</p>



<a name="183945825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945825">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes I think it makes sense to let the majorness  of the change to guide whether  to close immediately or not</p>



<a name="183945866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945866">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>we discussed and settled on<br>
    * leave a nice message, which it S-waiting-on-author<br>
    * close per usual triage process if no issue is filed within a certain amount of time<br>
    * if an issue is filed but it is not "green lighted", then we can close the PR<br>
        * i.e., if we decide that a design meeting or broader project group is needed</li>
</ul>



<a name="183945885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945885">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I added that to the document</p>



<a name="183945893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945893">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I will take this opportunity to complain about Zulip and nested bullet lists</p>



<a name="183945897"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945897" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945897">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and if we cannot immediately tell what the majorness is, then we should bias towards closing, of course?)</p>



<a name="183945900"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945900" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945900">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>as I always do</p>



<a name="183945954"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945954" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945954">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(and if we cannot immediately tell what the majorness is, then we should bias towards closing, of course?)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, I phrased it as "it is not green lighted", which I think implies such a bias</p>



<a name="183945983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945983">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, having settled that, I'm trying to decide what to turn to next :)</p>



<a name="183945987"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183945987" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183945987">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it would be good to have a minimum number of "approvals" required (2 perhaps?). </p>
<p>Without that, I could see team members being less willing to provide an approval unless they were 100% sure about all of the details off the top of their head. Requiring only one approval puts a lot of (perceived) responsibility on that one person.</p>
<p>For contributors, making a large change could be a very expensive time commitment and I think they would feel better about the odds of their PR getting approved if multiple people have signed off on the idea.</p>



<a name="183946006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946006">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm interesting</p>



<a name="183946009"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946009" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946009">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like</p>



<a name="183946020"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946020" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946020">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I feel like there are some changes that I would feel comfortable approving all by myself</p>



<a name="183946023"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946023">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would feel like we should not increase the number of <em>required</em> approvals, but note that of course the more the better :)</p>



<a name="183946029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946029">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe I'm exceptional :P</p>



<a name="183946068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946068">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., if you may not want to do it if it will plausibly get declined, then you should perhaps wait for approvals (and indicate as such)</p>



<a name="183946069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946069">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I tend to think we should not <em>require</em> 2 approvals, but there should be a way for someone to say "I approve, and will review, but I'd like someone else from compiler-team to give their assent since I'm not 100% sure"</p>



<a name="183946070"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946070" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946070">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>what set of people are part of the reviewers here?</p>



<a name="183946132"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946132" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946132">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>all contributors? just compiler-team members?</p>



<a name="183946137"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946137" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946137">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>good question</p>



<a name="183946169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946169">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe contributors can review, but at least 1 member must asseent</p>



<a name="183946170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946170">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>its possible that the number of approvals required could depend on "seniority"</p>



<a name="183946174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946174">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>or something like that</p>



<a name="183946178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946178">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems right to me</p>



<a name="183946180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946180">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>"require" might be too strong, but it should be encouraged to ask for additional eyes, if in doubt</p>



<a name="183946200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946200">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>'s comment gets at what I was trying to describe for team members better than I did.</p>



<a name="183946242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946242">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like the idea of having a few possible responses</p>
<ul>
<li>I have concerns</li>
<li>I approve but don't have ability/time to review</li>
<li>I am happy to review but I would like another to approve too</li>
<li>I am happy to review and I think we can just go forward (only possible for "members")</li>
</ul>



<a name="183946355"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946355" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946355">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>side note</p>



<a name="183946363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946363">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>"approval for further experimentation" might also be good</p>



<a name="183946364"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946364" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946364">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>it is possible to create Zulip "bridges"</p>



<a name="183946386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946386">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>one way is via e-mail, but there are probably things for "opened GH issues" etc</p>



<a name="183946391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946391">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>it is possible to create Zulip "bridges"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>was this for a different topic ?</p>



<a name="183946395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946395">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thikn we should have a dedicated Zulip streawm</p>



<a name="183946407"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946407" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946407">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>where each such issue automatically creates a topic in the stream</p>



<a name="183946411"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946411" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946411">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(if we can arrange it)</p>



<a name="183946416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946416">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah okay I see now</p>



<a name="183946425"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946425" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946425">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry, I'm just kind if brainstorming about how to encourage conversation and prompted feedback :)</p>



<a name="183946429"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946429">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me really wants to start learning more about the Zulip API</p>



<a name="183946474"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946474" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946474">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, as to what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> said, I guess it would be something like "I approve but only on an experimental basis" ?</p>



<a name="183946476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946476">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>as a further option</p>



<a name="183946488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946488">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's kind of an orthogonal thing</p>



<a name="183946500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946500">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>I approve on an experimental basis; we should discuss again when we gain more experience</li>
</ul>



<a name="183946508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946508">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., you could be a reviewier but <em>still</em> think it shoul be experimental :)</p>



<a name="183946569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946569">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>where "experimental" means: "it can land but only guarded under a <code>-Z</code> flag" ?</p>



<a name="183946576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946576">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, it's not entirely orthogonal I think</p>



<a name="183946591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946591">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>where "experimental" means: "it can land but only guarded under a <code>-Z</code> flag" ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>for example</p>



<a name="183946663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946663">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>or if there is an unmerged proof of concept, but more fleshed out</p>



<a name="183946695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946695">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I approve the overall idea but not necessarily the specific design?</p>



<a name="183946723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946723">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as what "experimental" means)</p>



<a name="183946740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946740">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>does that then imply we need a design meeting?</p>



<a name="183946766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946766">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was thinking of cases where there might be edge cases with bad performance and potential solutions that need to be tested first</p>



<a name="183946772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946772">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>or do you more mean "I have specific points of feedback to fix the design; but it doesn't need larger group discussion" ?</p>



<a name="183946793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946793">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, more so, that you're not sure if the design is good, but want to see an implementation to decide</p>



<a name="183946859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183946859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183946859">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that's another good case</p>



<a name="183947122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947122">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>(sorry, had to drop afk unexpectedly, catching up)</p>



<a name="183947282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947282">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>well it seems like we need <em>some</em> form of experimentation</p>



<a name="183947289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947289">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>which could mean a lot of things</p>



<a name="183947295"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947295" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947295">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>it might be just like a "caveats" section</p>



<a name="183947344"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947344" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947344">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., the options I originally listed, plus some way to</p>



<a name="183947351"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947351" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947351">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>add notes</p>



<a name="183947456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947456">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok well it's 54 minutes in</p>



<a name="183947475"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947475" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947475">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't see anybody still commenting :) not sure though if that's my internet or what</p>



<a name="183947526"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947526" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947526">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>no, no comments :)</p>



<a name="183947529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947529">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok :)</p>



<a name="183947534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947534">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>my computer was being weird, but good</p>



<a name="183947543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947543">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>everything's settled</p>



<a name="183947545"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947545" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947545">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>well seems like we're...done-ish?</p>



<a name="183947599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947599">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>there was something I had thought we should announce, but I've since forgotten what it was ...</p>



<a name="183947617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947617">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh!</p>



<a name="183947623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947623">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>next weeks' meetings</p>



<a name="183947626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947626">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should cancel them, right?</p>



<a name="183947650"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947650" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947650">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes :)</p>



<a name="183947653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947653">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Good point</p>



<a name="183947664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947664">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>The next planning meeting we scheduled for 2 weeks from now already</p>



<a name="183947667"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947667" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947667">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we should cancel them, right?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which makes this the last meeting in this decade</p>



<a name="183947699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947699">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Alright, Rust is all finished.</p>



<a name="183947777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947777">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> to follow up briefly on rustc-guide -- I agree we should encourage folks to write-up rustc-guide docs -- but i think sometimes that could be a hard bar, esp. if there's not much to start with, but even just having '"bullet point docs" can be a great starting point. Mostly I thkn we sohuld encouage them to <em>open an issue</em> first and foremost, and (asynchronously) we should work on getting docs done</p>



<a name="183947795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947795">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that should definitely be part of landing the change overall</p>



<a name="183947819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947819">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would sort of agree -- I guess a lot of the time it is a high bar, but I sometimes feel like it is sort of necessary</p>



<a name="183947820"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947820" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947820">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I guess it all depends on the change)</p>



<a name="183947823"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947823" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947823">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I definitely have had cases where someone said "this needs documentation change"</p>



<a name="183947848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947848">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>good module level docs might be appropriate and sufficient too</p>



<a name="183947850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947850">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then I go to look, and the underlying feature is undocumented</p>



<a name="183947862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947862">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I would sort of agree -- I guess a lot of the time it is a high bar, but I sometimes feel like it is sort of necessary</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes. I guess I agree with you too :) I think we should be starting to raise the bar, end of day</p>



<a name="183947870"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947870" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947870">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's just more about the "ordering"</p>



<a name="183947890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947890">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I shouldn't push back too hard, after all, I want more docs :)</p>



<a name="183947905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947905">(Dec 20 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> strong agree there :) I think if we don't do more to require docs upfront we'll perpetually not really have docs for many things</p>



<a name="183947970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183947970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183947970">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, this seems right.</p>



<a name="183948047"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948047" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948047">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>all right, thanks all! <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span></p>



<a name="183948062"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948062" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948062">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:01)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116122">simulacrum</span> to follow up briefly on rustc-guide -- I agree we should encourage folks to write-up rustc-guide docs -- but i think sometimes that could be a hard bar, esp. if there's not much to start with, but even just having '"bullet point docs" can be a great starting point. Mostly I thkn we sohuld encouage them to <em>open an issue</em> first and foremost, and (asynchronously) we should work on getting docs done</p>
</blockquote>
<p>in some way the Learning WG could help I guess</p>



<a name="183948177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948177">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks for driving the meeting, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> !</p>



<a name="183948193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948193">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure -- but I don't think putting it on that WG to write up docs is the right approach for the most part</p>



<a name="183948208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948208">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah no no, I was clarifying a bit more</p>



<a name="183948228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948228">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's excellent that they exist, but should hopefully be more of a review task force and maybe bootstrapping helpers rather than "I write code, they document" :)</p>



<a name="183948249"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948249">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>but sure I agree</p>



<a name="183948255"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948255" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948255">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah no</p>



<a name="183948269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948269">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> mostly what I'm saying is two things:</p>
<ul>
<li>writing good docs takes time, and maybe the author who is doing the PR doesn't understand the whole system that well anyway, so it may be that the reviewer should be involved with writing up the final docs</li>
<li>sometimes as part of reviewing the system will change so it doesn't make sense to invest <em>too much</em> in doc writing <em>yet</em></li>
</ul>



<a name="183948285"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948285" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948285">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>but they should be written before the end</li>
</ul>



<a name="183948308"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948308" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948308">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe having the person writing some bullet points and the WG in some way helping would be great</p>



<a name="183948323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948323">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would agree with that. I guess I see it as "explain your change" -- though what that looks like varies on the change</p>



<a name="183948324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948324">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I think the role of the WG should be more in paying down our "doc debt"</p>



<a name="183948381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948381">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. with some of the parallel patches I wrote docs after the PR was reviewed</p>



<a name="183948382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948382">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>though longer term I do sort of love the idea of folks who</p>



<a name="183948385"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948385" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948385">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I think worked well</p>



<a name="183948390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948390">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>contribute to rustc (and become experts on it) by helping to document it</p>



<a name="183948400"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948400" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948400">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>which I think worked well</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, agreed</p>



<a name="183948431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948431">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>if the change is small enough, a few bullets and high-level description before + more detailed docs after is great</p>



<a name="183948498"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948498" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948498">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, I have to go run to the bakery and get some bread, thanks again</p>



<a name="183948500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948500">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>"I write code, they document" -&gt; they way I'd like to see this is a contributor helps a member of the learning wg to understand some area of the compiler and the member of the wg helps to get some documentation in</p>



<a name="183948505"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948505" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948505">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>win - win</p>



<a name="183948526"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948526" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948526">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>sure -- that works -- I just meant we can't expect to indefinitely offload that work :)</p>



<a name="183948538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183948538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183948538">(Dec 20 2019 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>definitely :)</p>



<a name="183957443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957443">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>BTW, I updated the hackmd with what I believe to be the <a href="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw?view#Final-proposed-process" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/MdbJvbO0SqmgxSV8K3JBEw?view#Final-proposed-process">final consensus we arrived at</a></p>



<a name="183957460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957460">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm curious what's the next step somehow :)</p>



<a name="183957470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957470">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I coudl see writing up the docs on this in an end-user way as a PR to the forge</p>



<a name="183957473"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957473" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957473">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then doing a FCP</p>



<a name="183957597"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957597" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957597">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think maybe it makes sense to RFC it? I could imagine basically taking those bullet points and splitting them up into the appropriate sections</p>



<a name="183957609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957609">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>that seems like the most user-visible way we have</p>



<a name="183957647"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957647" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957647">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, that's reasonable</p>



<a name="183957701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183957701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183957701">(Dec 20 2019 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like that</p>



<a name="183961921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183961921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183961921">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Missed the meeting, but I have some thoughts:</p>
<ul>
<li>To me it's hard to see what constitutes "major change". E.g. say is a major but very local refactoring (go through each function and improve code quality, maybe split some of them) of e.g. <code>parser/expr.rs</code> a "major change"?</li>
<li>
<p>I think it's often best to document the code a lot (within the "major change" PR) and then use the major strokes for the rustc guide -- the important thing is that the information be accessible for e.g. wg-learning.<br>
    * We should require that PRs don't regress the state of documentation and commentary (as a %), they should improve the %.<br>
    * Also, wrt. code quality, giant 300 LOC methods are ungreat.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I think the focus on "contributor" and "member" as formal categories is unnecessary -- It's often fairly clear who the experts are. E.g. for parser changes, it would be estebank, petrochenkov, and myself.<br>
    * And if e.g. splitting a file constitutes a "major change", you don't even need to be an expert, just using a <code>diff</code> tool is enough.</p>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="183962229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962229">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Good thoughts. Some responses:</p>



<a name="183962316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962316">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>You're probably right that it's not necessary to get overly formal re: "contributor" vs "member". The most imporant point is how confident you are that (a) the idea is good and (b) others will agree =)</p>



<a name="183962374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962374">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:56)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>The most imporant point is how confident you are that (a) the idea is good and (b) others will agree =)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah basically <span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="183962438"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962438" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962438">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Regarding what constitutes a major change, I guess I think the example could go either way, depending on the details. There will always be some guesswork. I think we'll come to a better understanding over time. I would expect to start by erring on the side of "yes", though -- and perhaps just keep that as the rule. ("If in doubt...")</p>



<a name="183962457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962457">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>To address your specific example: I imagine that splitting a file and small-bore refactorings probably <em>don't</em> affect the documentation in rustc-guide</p>



<a name="183962479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962479">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>or if they do, it's with small tweaks like changing the filename, but not the real structure</p>



<a name="183962568"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962568" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962568">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>the rustc-guide docs are meant to document the "high-level strategy", so for the parser, I would imagine they might talk about</p>
<ul>
<li>how the parser works (e.g., recursive descent)</li>
<li>how we sometimes do recovery by "testing" if something parses</li>
<li>how we report and recover from parse errors</li>
</ul>



<a name="183962577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962577">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>that sort of thing</p>



<a name="183962584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962584">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(To take an example of where formality would be suboptimal, I think that e.g. arielb1 would be quite competent to r+ larger changes though they are neither formally contributor or team member.)</p>



<a name="183962592"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962592" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962592">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>so if you refactored such a mechanism, then yes, I think it's a major change</p>



<a name="183962608"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962608" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962608">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I don't agree with that</p>



<a name="183962624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962624">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean yes they are obviously competent</p>



<a name="183962640"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962640" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962640">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>but note that they were also a compiler team member:)</p>



<a name="183962645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962645">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybe they're a special case</p>



<a name="183962653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962653">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh ^^</p>



<a name="183962658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962658">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>in general, though, if there is someone who is an expert and they're not a member</p>



<a name="183962663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962663">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should fix that by making them a member :)</p>



<a name="183962680"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962680" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962680">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>but yeah I guess I can imagine</p>



<a name="183962689"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962689" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962689">(Dec 20 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean I thnk it's fine to say "so and so reviews this PR because they wrote the code"</p>



<a name="183962738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962738">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>but they're not (in general) active enough to rise to contributor/member level</p>



<a name="183962742"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962742" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962742">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>sure</p>



<a name="183962748"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962748" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962748">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I take back what I said :)</p>



<a name="183962792"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962792" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962792">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the only thing is that I think we should try to be careful about who is r+'ing</p>



<a name="183962817"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962817" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962817">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I agree that there are "edge cases" and the formal categories don't always fit</p>



<a name="183962966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183962966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183962966">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK so e.g. for the parser PR, changes to the rustc guide would be more about the fundamental mechanisms and stuff</p>



<a name="183963020"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963020" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963020">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though I think that cleaning up a part of the code-base is a really great way to gain understanding, improve the local documentation, and then it can eventually go into the rustc guide</p>



<a name="183963022"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963022" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963022">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thnk so yes</p>



<a name="183963031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963031">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would also say</p>



<a name="183963053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963053">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>well first off I was going to add this note to the minutes:</p>



<a name="183963062"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963062" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963062">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:04)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Centril + nikomatsakis discussed a bit after and noted that we<br>
  probably don't need to get formal about members vs contributors, the<br>
  key point is that if somebody is confident that (a) they know this<br>
  is the right approach and (b) they know others will agree, they<br>
  should feel free to move a major change forward (and leave notes to<br>
  that effect on the issue)</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="183963175"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963175" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963175">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the point is that it's pretty easy to move forward</p>



<a name="183963186"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963186" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963186">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>if you feel it's clearly good + others will agree</p>



<a name="183963275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963275">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Though I think that cleaning up a part of the code-base is a really great way to gain understanding, improve the local documentation, and then it can eventually go into the rustc guide</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes for sure</p>



<a name="183963313"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963313" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963313">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>if such a PR seems to cross the line, then it seems ok to quickly create an issue with some notes on the cleanup and just add a <code>Closes rust-lang/compiler-team#123</code> and r+ the PR</p>



<a name="183963354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963354">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I am <em>imagining</em> then that this will still trigger a post or something so that people who care can have a chance to look in)</p>



<a name="183963483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183963483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183963483">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yea, makes sense <span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="183964524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183964524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183964524">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>wrt. code quality, giant 300 LOC methods are ungreat.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(bah, 300 LoC is nothing! now, 3 KLoC, then we're talking!)</p>



<a name="183966631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966631">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span> to add to what I said a bit -- when I said "Affect rustc-guide docs" I meant mostly not that it would just change them, but, if we had such docs today, then it would make them stale basically</p>



<a name="183966644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966644">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>so e.g. refactoring the parser probably wouldn't do this</p>



<a name="183966653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966653">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>because you're not changing the high-level design</p>



<a name="183966673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966673">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if you <em>are</em> then I think an issue and related overhead is reasonable</p>



<a name="183966711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966711">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but because of the 'easy' policy, you'd not need to do much more than just an issue, because presumably e.g. estebank or petrochenkov would fairly quickly sign-off</p>



<a name="183966784"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183966784" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183966784">(Dec 20 2019 at 19:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and if not, well, then maybe it's a good thing that we paused :)</p>



<a name="183973653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183973653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183973653">(Dec 20 2019 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(bah, 300 LoC is nothing! now, 3 KLoC, then we're talking!)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>oh lord please have mercy ;)</p>



<a name="183987177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/183987177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#183987177">(Dec 21 2019 at 00:36)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think maybe it makes sense to RFC it? I could imagine basically taking those bullet points and splitting them up into the appropriate sections</p>
</blockquote>
<p>FWIW, I think we would need to update the rustc-guide with this procedure (particularly, part 1)</p>



<a name="184099142"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/184099142" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#184099142">(Dec 23 2019 at 11:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>the major change policy is itself a major change, you're saying? ;)</p>



<a name="184394725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-12-20/near/184394725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-12-20.html#184394725">(Dec 28 2019 at 22:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes lol<br>
We have a couple of chapters on procedural stuff like what an average contribution looks like etc. It would be good to have a short chapter or at least a note that if you are planning a large change, you should go through such a process so as not to waste your time or the reviewer's time</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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